Grusch on Rogan

UAP Whistleblower David Grusch has a new interview on Joe Rogan’s podcast, where expands on his earlier claims of a UFO crash retrieval and reverse engineering program. He discusses the criminal enterprise he discovered, a potential timeline for disclosure, reveals the existence of a video showing alien bodies, and discusses potential conflict between nonhuman races.

Work With Rep Burlison

Grusch: “ Representative Burlison had this crazy idea to hire me as a professional staff member for Congress working for him… And so I did that for about a year and a half. Just finished up actually. I was like, ‘You know what? I'm staying longer than I thought… I'm gonna wait until Labor Day, see where things are.’ I worked pretty hard over summer recess in August and decided to wind down some of my activities because I accomplished a lot of my objectives… And then move into, I'll call it my next phase of operations, which includes a little break for me.”
Paradigm News: “Public records… list whistleblower David Grusch as the chief operating officer of StarDustX Materials, Inc., an advanced materials startup… Stanford medical school professor Garry Nolan, a member of the Trump administration’s UAP Science Advisory Council, and Karl Nell, a retired Army colonel and Disclosure advocate, have both identified themselves as co-founders… Nell, whose LinkedIn profile lists past engineering roles at defense contractors… has described it as ‘a multimillion-dollar VC-backed startup focused on metamaterial analysis and design.’”
Rep. Burlison: “What Grusch did was very helpful for my office… He had other opportunities that required him to leave… I’m happy for him. I’m thrilled that he’s able to move on and have a successful career because he needs to have that… Wait until you see who we're going to hire next… The ink isn’t dry yet, so I don't want to say until I get the ink dry… Let's just say he's also been on Ross Coulthart.”
Paradigm News: “UFO whistleblower Jake Barber has joined the staff of Rep. Eric Burlison to assist on UAP work, Burlison spokesman Nate Lucas confirmed.”

Criminal Activity

Grusch: “ I had many SCIF classified meetings with the members going over the topological history of this topic and some of the deeper, darker kind of criminal stuff I bumped into and how I worked with DOJ to kind of highlight some of that stuff… I was following the money, bumping into other activities… what I bumped into, unfortunately, it was like the deep underbelly of the federal government. It's a lot of stuff I've never talked about because it's just very terrifying and I've been through a lot of, a lot of crazy shit.”
Grusch: “I ended up bumping into a criminal enterprise run out of a particular agency, and it was basically getting money through certain criminal endeavors, the most unspeakable type of criminal endeavors, under the cover of certain national security programs.”
Rogan: “Unspeakable? Like child trafficking? The government was involved in child trafficking for money?”
Grusch: “ Officers of the government, that's true. Yeah. It's fucked up. I briefed members in a classified setting on all the details and I'm highlighting that because this is how serious this issue is…”
Grusch: “There's a lot of good people around these [UAP] programs… and I know a lot of them. They're friends of mine. They're patriotic people doing their duty. But there is a small little caste system of characters that are part of this larger ecosystem of no holds barred, we're gonna do what we want, and we're gonna do whatever kind of criminal activity to get washed money for our cutouts.”

Disclosure

Grusch: “ I believe before Trump's term ends that it's all gonna come out… Everything I've testified about. The fact that we've been studying this for a while. We've recovered material, AKA intact, semi-intact craft. We've recovered this anomalous intelligence piloting the craft and we are reverse engineering that.”
- Rogan: “I met [Stephen Miller] very briefly at the UFC event at the White House, and he told me that it’s gonna come out… It was really quick… He’s like ‘I know you’re interested in this.’ This is literally all we talked about. ‘The UFO thing’s gonna come out.’”
- Grusch: “ I'm normally a very pessimistic, cynical person… but I am surprisingly confident, which is kind of weird for me to say, because I just see the tea leaves. I know Miller’s serious. There’s other people in the government that are serious. You even see Aaron Lukas, the Deputy DNI… sign these big NDA waivers… and so you’re seeing the chessboard being set.”
Rogan: “ So what's the hold up in terms of disclosure?”
- Grusch: “ A lot of people who are just, ‘Release it all. Show us Indiana Jones warehouse tour,’ don't appreciate the care that we're gonna have to proceed with because this is not a static ecosystem. This isn't just like archeology where you're digging up stuff. You are dealing with third parties, both human adversarial countries [that] have their own program, and then you have… this anomalous intelligence, our visitors, NHI, whatever you wanna call them… If you're not careful with certain stuff, you can trigger a response. And there is great fear that… I don't necessarily believe in this, but there’s been assessments in the past that revealing certain things may trigger a response from a third party.”
- Rogan: “Trigger a response from them? From these entities?”
- Grusch: “Possibly, yes. And that has been written up. Government think tanks wrote that up in reports to previous presidents.”
- Rogan: “So, the theory is, that we disclose, people are now aware of it all over the globe, and they decide to show themselves?”
- Grusch: “Yeah, I mean, I think there's a real fear of like, a Ghostbusters moment, I'll say.”
Rogan: “Is this gonna take a long time to release?”
- Grusch: “ That was always the plan back in the day… It's like an anesthetization and acclimatization process. It's like, okay, we're gonna focus on this topic. This is gonna get normalized. The temperature's gonna cool, and then we're gonna bring in this shocking thing, et cetera.”
- Rogan: “So there’s a schedule? In terms of the psychological impact on the populace?”
- Grusch: “ There was in the past… Certain government think tanks wrote classified assessments for previous presidents on this. I don't know what the current plan is… But if they're gonna do what they did in the past… the slow rollout has its pluses and minuses… I would say due to human factors, risks of adversarial countries getting ahead of us, other whistleblowers, whatever. You probably have to roll this out in at least like 12 months and whatnot.”
Rogan: “ How do you envision that something like that would take place? Would they have a broadcast? Would they show a video and explain?”
- Grusch: “There was a plan at one point for [the George HW Bush] administration. They were gonna have [a video]…”
- Grusch: “And I’m sure the video sucked. It probably had some synthwave government film, like from 1989, like doo-doo-doo… it was probably gonna be horrible and dry, but there was gonna be this audio/visual kind of companion to some sort of announcement. I don’t know all the specific details after that.”
- Rogan: “God, I hope that video exists… in an archive somewhere. We could watch it after disclosure.”
- Grusch: “I know, we need to have a throwback, see the old shit.”
Rogan: “ I'm sure you're aware of Hal Puthoff when he was tasked by the Bush administration along with a bunch of other thinkers to try to come up with pros and cons for disclosure… Supposedly they brought in a bunch of different thought leaders and they gave them a pro and a con side. Like, what would be negatively affected by disclosure, what would be positively affected by disclosure, and attached a numerical value to each thing… And virtually every one of them had more negative than positive, and so the decision was made to not disclose.”
- Grusch: “ Correct… It was November of 2004… I knew some other people in that meeting, and I verified that meeting took place… They had like a computer system there that tabulated everything, from what I know talking to other attendees… And the main decision, if I remember correctly, was the federal contracts fraud… So these set of contractors got sole source contracts and exclusive access to this for internal research and development, where they figure out something and then sell it back to the government, et cetera, for all these decades… They were afraid that you would see legal challenges going to the Supreme Court in violation of… the Defense Federal Acquisition Regulations.”

How Craft Work

Rogan: “ What are [UFOs], and what are they capable of?”
Grusch: “ There's physical and non-physical… UAP and intelligence we're likely dealing with. So for example, the orbs, could that be sentient plasmoid? Possibly… Could the orbs actually be physical craft, but they have a sheath of plasma around it?”
Grusch: “Well, interestingly enough, AAWSAP did a… document on magneto-hydrodynamic propulsion… With MHD… you have to use a conductive fluid. Either saltwater, or you could do it in the air, but you have to create a plasma. And you steer the plasma with… the Lorentz force… which is like ionic propulsion sorta… One of the byproducts of an air-breathing MHD system is plasma around it. So, depending on the size of the orb, it is conceivable that there’s a physical craft behind it as well, just as an artifact of the propulsion system. Again, that’s a theory. I’m sure the program knows.”
Journalist Harald Havas, recounting whistleblower Jake Barber’s comments at a UAP conference in Sweden: “He said he recovered different kind of craft over time, and many of them were exotic. Not only the egg and not only the eightgon, but different kinds of exotic craft. And he said that many of them look like orbs in the sky or are invisible to the normal eye, but when they are grounded and when the energy goes away, they look quite different. They have different sizes and shapes, and he says that behind most of the orbs, there's some technical apparatus. Most of them are not aerodynamically shaped… He was told… by an agency… that the eggs are actually coming from a mothership in low orbit around Earth or in the high atmosphere. And this mothership has a cylindrical form, and it sometimes sheds eggs. They come out of it, and they scout Earth. And those eggs are sometimes unmanned, and… if they are manned, they are manned by Grays.

Ocean Base

Rogan: “Is there consensus on their origin? …Like, Tim Burchett’s talked about the ocean.”
Grusch: “There is, yes. We know a lot about that. I’ve got to be careful because it gets into sensitive Navy underwater things. There’s clearly some sort of base of operations in certain locations… Don’t know when it got there… It’s large, like multiple city blocks… I will tell you, underwater people I know… they’re always like ‘You know the movie The Abyss, Dave? It’s kind of a docudrama.’”
Rogan: “Is this a waypoint? Is this a stopoff?”
Grusch: “It looks like a base, because stuff comes and goes.”
Rogan: “So, this is like where they observe?”
Grusch: “I’m sure we’ve done a behavioral analysis on it, and we probably have figured out the mission… I don’t know the answer to that. I’m as curious as anybody.”
Daily Mail: “Grusch's bombshell claims on Rogan's podcast echoed similar allegations made by Tennessee congressman Tim Burchett, a member of the House Oversight Committee overseeing UFO reports, who said last year that alien 'entities' were currently living in deep-water areas on Earth. Burchett said in a widely shared interview that there have been frequent sightings of unidentified craft around five or six specific deep-sea areas. These sites were believed to be in the Atlantic Ocean near the Bahamas.”

Types of NHI

Grusch: “I got to see [clear video] on [recovery of pilot bodies]… I gotta be a little vague because I wanna protect the sources… It’s contemporary [footage], but I don’t wanna reveal a particular operation… They were just dead cadavers… three or four… on the ground… Human-looking… Very beautiful… Tom Delonge said the General told him ‘Think of the Greek gods’ and now I kind of understand what he meant… Bluish-white [skin]… like a pale sort of albino… Long, grayish hair… Form-fitting [outfit]… Amorphous [gender]… It wasn’t super close-up. It was… a pan… during the [retrieval] operation… They looked tall to me. I didn’t have a ground-reference. I would say at least human size… might be taller.”
Grusch: “When I get that kind of information, I… confirm it independently… through other sources and methods… because I was very allergic to any kind of deception… I sat on that stuff for years… I know people that are good friends of mine that were on retrievals and saw [bodies] in person, and I’m like, comparing… ‘Did it look like this? Was it this type of craft?’”
Grusch: “Some of my colleagues saw them alive as well.”
Rogan: “What did they see alive? Like, the Greek god-looking ones?”
Grusch: “Reptilian-looking. Almost seven feet tall plus. Sort of gorilla-looking, scaly skin. But there’s multiple types. There’s ones that are more humanoid-looking… I’m not an expert on that one, I never saw it in person.”
Rogan: “What other kinds of beings have been reported?”
Grusch: “So, for the gray types, there are multiple sizes, there’s taller ones… Like, three or four different subtypes, and they all kind of have different statures… Their faces are a little different.”
Rogan: “Are there more than one type of reptilian one?”
Grusch: “Yeah, there seems to be, and I don’t know why there’s different subtypes.”
Rogan: “So, we’ve covered the grays, the tall grays, the little grays, the reptilians, various forms, the Nordic or Greek-god-looking ones.”
Grusch: “Yeah, there’s subtypes there, too. In terms of the humanoid ones, there’s different kinds, from very human to clearly not human, but humanoid-ish.”
Rogan: “Isn’t there like a mantis?”
Grusch: “I have heard… water-cooler talk within those channels, of some sort of insectoid, but I don’t know anything about it, if that exists.”

Types of Craft

Grusch: “ There has been the physical craft of all different flavors… The Tic Tacs are real. There's eggs, there's different types of discs… and obviously all those have different origins in terms of pilots and whatnot. There's a little bit of overlap. It's almost like certain people like the Porsche 911 or a Ford Mustang. They kind of build the same shape, and that's probably indicative of the technology or the propulsion system. I'm not an expert in exactly why that is.”
Rogan: “The Greek god people, what did their craft look like?”
Grusch: “A boomerang, crescent moon… That’s what they tend to roll up in.”
Rogan: “The Reptilian craft, what did that thing look like?”
Grusch: “That one is tic-tac looking.”
Rogan: “Why do these things keep crashing?”
Grusch: “Some of it is NHI vs NHI… What we perceive as warfare… It looks like conflict…”
Rogan: “And when this reptilian craft crashed, the assumption was that it was some sort of conflict?”
Grusch: “Correct, because there was dead grays there, too.”
Rogan: “So the grays and reptilians were duking it out… and [the reptilian] craft crashed into the ground… broken up… like it had been hit with something?”
Grusch: “Yeah… I don’t know the total number of adversarial conflict crashes, but it seems to be at least a dozen or two.”
Liberation Times, quoting an unnamed Intelligence Community source: “Competition between the sides may be nearly as old as humanity itself. What I've heard described isn't an outright war, but rather a scaled-down adversarial relationship. It's unclear which sides have aligned with international governments, or which sides are cooperating with factions within the program. It's quite possible that every government has had to manage this competition among the sides.”

Reptilian Conflict

Rogan: “ So this guy that you communicated with that said he encountered, living reptilians and dead grays. Did they have communication with these reptilians?”
Grusch: “No, I don’t think so.”
Rogan: “Do you know what… happened to those living reptilians from the crash?”
Grusch: “Deceased. They were killed.”
Rogan: “We killed them?”
Grusch: “Yeah.”
Rogan: “We shot the reptilians?”
Grusch: “Yeah.”
Rogan: “Jesus. That seems like a bad idea… Do you know why they killed the reptilians instead of just telling them to call their homies… to come pick them up?”
Grusch: “It posed a threat to the team… US personnel started getting hurt and dying.”
Rogan: “US personnel were killed by these reptilians?”
Grusch: “I know it sounds crazy.”
Rogan: “How many people were killed?”
Grusch: “I don’t know exact numbers.”
Rogan: “This sounds so goofy.”
Grusch: “I know it sounds schizo… Think about me! Like, I was a very serious intel officer. I had access to the most sensitive stuff, I was working on convert action activities, and then all of a sudden, I’m inundated with this ecosystem, and I’m having to explain this to members of Congress in my classified testimony. And… I sound like a fucking crazy person. But once again, it’s true. I know who I talked to. I know what I saw. I clearly have some inkling of what’s going on behind the scenes, and this is a real reality, man… and I hope people look back at this interview and are like ‘yeah, Dave was really putting his ass on the line.’”
Rep Burlison: “My office is continuing to follow the trail and try to get the actual receipts on some of the claims that he has made. For example, the camera footage that he has described of a crash… up-close footage documenting those aliens, what are called Nordics… We’re still on the trail of getting access to that footage. The other thing we’re on the trail for is documenting the event that occurred at one of our military bases where the claim is that there was a shootout. Now that is something that I had heard from David, but also have heard from other individuals as well. That’s something that we’re on the track of along with other documented events. Jay Stratton, in his book, has actually enlightened us on some things that we can follow the trail of as well. My office will continue that effort and we’ll do what we can. We have two and a half months left. We’re gonna be in breakneck speed trying to get as much information as we can while we still have the oversight committee.”

References

Joe Rogan Podcast #2560, David Grusch
Burlison: “Wait until you see who we hire next.”
Daily Mail: Air Force veteran makes wild claim on Joe Rogan of a secret UFO base spanning 'multiple city blocks' at the bottom of the ocean
Liberation Times: The Kammler Connection
UFOTV: Jake Barber: “The Eggs come from a mothership.”
Burlison: “My office is on the trail of the footage Grusch described.”
Paradigm News: Grusch’s advanced materials startup
Paradigm News: UFO whistleblower Jake Barber is working in Congress

Episode 98, posted on November 8, 2026