Alien Bodies!? Whistleblower Grusch and Navy Pilots in House UAP Hearing

The House Oversight Committee’s UAP Hearing just happened, and it was remarkable! Navy pilots David Fravor and Ryan Graves recounted their historic UFO encounters, and intelligence community whistleblower David Grusch reiterated his claims that the government has illegally concealed a UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program from Congress. Though these claims have been heard before, it was notable that they testified under oath to an engaged and credulous bipartisan Congress. There was no joking, no attempts to undermine the claims being made, and no political maneuvering. The tone was remarkably serious, and the clear impression is that Congress isn’t letting this topic go. They’re on the ball, and already talking about next steps, including the formation of a UAP select committee with subpoena power!

Rep Grothman: “The lack of transparency regarding UAPs has fueled wild speculation and debate for decades, eroding public trust in the very institutions that are meant to serve and protect them.”
Rep Garcia: “Some folks might wonder why we are asking questions that might already be out there or that have been asked before. It’s important that they’re asked and put into the public record as it relates to this committee. It’s also important that our friends in the media engage and do independent investigation and reports…”
Rep Garcia: “This is by far the most bipartisan conversation and discussion that I have seen happen in the Congress.”
Rep Luna: “We were even denied access to a classified briefing in a SCIF prior to this hearing, due the amount of hoops that we had to jump through to grant temporary clearance to witness Grusch, who has knowledge of classified information.”
Rep Moskowitz: “The American people ask themselves, how come when a Russian jet shoots flares at one of our drones, we have perfect pictures and videos to show the American people and the world, but when it comes to UAPs, nothing? …Of course we must always protect our national security… but we can’t allow that to be used as a shield to keep the American people completely in the dark from basic truths. The American people deserve to hear more about SAPs. Congress has a right to know if there’s any unsanctioned weapons development. Satellite imagery that has not been provided to Congress.”
Rep Andy Ogles: “There clearly is a threat to the national security of the USA. As members of Congress we have a responsibility to maintain oversight and be aware of these activities so that if appropriate we take action. I would encourage the chairman to demand that we have any and all, but in particular Mr Grusch, talk to us in a SCIF and if that access is denied, I will personally volunteer to initiate the Holman rule against any personnel or any program or any agency that denies that access to Congress.”
- The Holman rule is a rule in the House of Representatives that allows amendments …that would reduce the salary of or fire specific federal employees, or cut a specific program.
Matt Gaetz: “Several months ago my office received a protected disclosure from Eglin AFB indicating that there was a UAP incident that required my attention. I sought a briefing regarding that episode and brought with me congressman Burchett and congresswoman Luna. We asked to see any of the evidence that had been taken by flight crew in this endeavor and to observe any radar signature as well as meet with the flight crew. We were not afforded access to all of the flight crew and initially we were not afforded access to images and to radar. Thereafter we had a bit of a discussion about how authorities flow in the USA and we did see the image and we did meet with one member of the flight crew who took the image. The image was of something that I am not able to attach to any human capability, either from the US or from any of our adversaries. And I’m somewhat informed on the matter, having served on the armed services committee for seven years and having served on the committee that oversees DARPA and Advanced Technologies for several years. When we spoke with the flight crew and when he showed us the photo that he’d taken, I asked why the video wasn’t engaged, why he didn’t have a FLIR system that worked. Here’s what he said. They were out on a test mission that day over the Gulf of Mexico and when you’re on a test mission you’re supposed to have clear air space. Not supposed to be anything that shows up, and they saw a sequence of four craft in a clear diamond formation, for which there is a radar sequence that I and I alone have observed in the United States Congress. One of the pilots goes to check out that diamond formation and sees a large floating, what I can only describe as an orb. Again, like I said, not of any human capability that I’m that I’m aware of, and when he approached he said that his radar went down, he said that his FLIR system malfunctioned, and that he had to manually take this image from one of the lenses, and it was not automated in collection as you would typically see in a test mission.”

Ryan Graves

“It has been more than a decade since my squadron began witnessing advanced UAP demonstrating complex maneuvers on a regular basis, and we still don’t have answers. I founded Americans for Safe Aerospace to create a center of support, research, and public education for aircrew impacted by UAP encounters.”
“Three critical issues that demand our immediate attention and concerted action. 1. UAP are in our airspace, but are grossly underreported. 2. The stigma attached to UAP is real and powerful and challenges national security. 3. The government knows more about UAP than is shared publicly, and excessive classification practices keep crucial information hidden.”
“UAP sightings became an open secret among our aircrew. They were a common occurrence, seen on radar and up close. The sightings were so frequent they became part of daily briefs.”
“The UAP we encountered and tracked on multiple sensors behaved in ways that surpassed our understanding and technology. They could accelerate at speeds up to Mach 1, hold their position against hurricane-force winds, and outlast our fighter jets, operating continuously throughout the day. They did not have any visible means of lift, control surfaces or propulsion — nothing that resembled normal aircraft with wings, flaps or engines.”
Incidents
- Describes a training incident in 2014 where pilots needed to go through a single GPS point at a set altitude. Two pilots saw “a dark grey cube inside of a clear sphere, motionless against the wind, fixed directly at their entry point.” They were forced to evade, came within 50ft of a collision, and terminated the mission.
- Describes an incident where Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet, former head of NOAA, received a classified email from his boss titled “Urgent safety of flight issue” with the GOFAST video attached, asking if anyone knew their origin. The next day the email was removed from his system.
- Describes an incident in 2003 when a large group of Boeing contractors at Vandenberg AFB saw a football-field sized red square approach the base from the ocean and hover over one of the launch facilities before darting over the mountains, and other similar events, including “aggressive tactics” where these objects were approaching security guards at rapid speeds before darting off.
Classification and reporting
- “My understanding is that all UAP videos since 2021 are classified Secret or above, which prevents the American people and even some Members of Congress from seeing UAP videos. …There’s certainly some National Security concerns when we use our Advanced sensors and our tactical Jets to be able to identify these objects. However there’s no reason that the objects themselves should be classified.”
- Asked what percentage of UAP encounters (both military and civilian) go unreported: personal estimate, 95%.

David Fravor

Describes the Tic-Tac incident. In 2004, during a training exercise, they were sent to check out a recurring radar track from the ship over the last two weeks. “They had been descending from above 80,000ft and coming rapidly down to 20,000ft, would stay for hours, and then go straight back up.” They saw a small white tic-tac shaped object (or if you don’t know what a tic-tac is, a giant flying propane tank) moving over a large disturbance in the water. “No rotors, no rotor wash, or any visible flight control surfaces like wings.” (mentions later that IR footage also showed no IR plume like normal propulsion systems.) It circled with them before rapidly accelerating away, appearing at their CAP point, traveling 60 miles in less than a minute.
“What is shocking is that the incident was never investigated, none of my crew were ever questioned, tapes were never taken.”
- Both Fravor and Graves were making the point that there was no standard procedure for reporting, which when combined with the stigma, means an unsafe situation where we’re ignoring unknown craft in our airspace.
Asked if UAP pose a potential national security threat: “Yes, and here’s why. The technology that we faced was far superior to anything we had, and you could put that anywhere. If you had one you captured, you reverse engineered it, you got it to work, you’re talking about something that can go into space, go someplace, drop down in a matter of seconds, do whatever it wants and leave, and there’s nothing we can do about it. Nothing.”
Asked to clarify how the objects differ from current technology: “We have nothing that can stop in midair and go the other direction, nor do we have anything that can come down from space, hang out for three hours, and go back up.”
“Many dismiss UAP reports as classified weapons testing by our own government, but in your experience as a pilot, does our government typically test advanced weapon systems right next to multi-million dollar jets without informing our pilots?” “No, we have test ranges for that.”

David Grusch

“I was an intelligence officer for 14 years …most recently …at the GS-15 civilian level, which is the military equivalent of a full-bird Colonel.”
- Reddit: “In the Army, AF and Marines an O5 is a ‘Lieutenant Colonel.’ Grusch is the equivalent of one rank higher which is also called a Colonel. They are referred to as “full bird” because they wear Eagles for rank insignia instead of the silver oak leafs worn by Lieutenant Colonels. So what does that mean? This is a very senior rank that takes dedication, ability and political savvy to achieve. In the military, full-bird colonel is the highest you can go without being a flag officer like a General or Admiral. In civilian levels, GS15 is the highest before the SES, which is like a flag officer.”
“I became a whistleblower …following concerning reports …that the US Government is operating with secrecy - above Congressional oversight - with regards to UAPs. …My testimony is based on information I have been given by [over 40] individuals with a longstanding track record of legitimacy and service to this country – many of whom also shared compelling evidence in the form of photography, official documentation, and classified oral testimony. I have taken every step I can to corroborate this evidence over a period of 4 years and to do my due diligence on the individuals sharing it.”
“In 2019, the UAPTF director tasked me to identify all Special Access Programs & Controlled Access Programs… At the time, due to my extensive executive-level intelligence support duties, I was cleared to literally all relevant compartments and in a position of extreme trust in both my military and civilian capacities. I was informed, in the course of my official duties, of a multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program to which I was denied access… I made the decision based on the data I collected, to report this information to my superiors and multiple Inspectors General, and in effect become a whistleblower.”
Reprisals:
- Said he couldn’t discuss due to an ongoing investigation, but “It was very brutal, and very unfortunate, some of the tactics they used to hurt me both professionally and personally. …I do have knowledge of active planned reprisal activity against myself and other colleagues… Certain colleagues were brutally administratively attacked… I call it administrative terrorism. That’s a tool in their toolbox to silence people, especially career government service people, who care about their career, care about their clearance, their reputation, to climb the ladder, and when you threaten that career path, a lot of people back off.”
- “Have you had incidents that caused you to fear for your life?” “Yes, personally.”
- Several Congresspeople made it clear that harassing witnesses and threatening whistleblowers is unacceptable.
AARO:
- Rep Foxx asked about AARO saying no evidence of ET: “That is not accurate. I believe Dr Kirkpatrick mentioned he had about 30 individuals that have come to AARO thus far. A few of those individuals I also interviewed, and I know what they provided Dr Kirkpatrick…” AND THEN SHE CUT HIM OFF TO READ A PREPREPARED STATEMENT WTF
- “You stated you briefed Sean Kirkpatrick on information you were uncovering. Were the items you divulged to him pertinent to national security?” “Yes. He and I had a classified conversation in April 2022 before he took over AARO, and I provided him with some concerns I had. …I wish he had followed up with me. I was happy to give counsel to him on where to look when he took the helm.”
- Sean Kirkpatrick put up a LinkedIn post that was a lot of whining about how poorly treated AARO was in the hearing, which is whatever. But notably he said “Contrary to assertions made in the hearing, the central source of those allegations has refused to speak with AARO. Furthermore, some information reportedly provided to Congress has not been provided to AARO, raising additional questions about the true commitment to transparency by some Congressional elements.”
- People have said either Kirkpatrick or Grusch is lying, but I think this is more weasel words — Grusch says they spoke before Kirkpatrick took over. Kirkpatrick says he’s refused to speak with AARO. These could both be true.
UAP and Aliens
- Is the government in possession of UAPs: “Absolutely, based on interviewing over 40 witnesses over four years. I know the exact locations and those locations were provided to the Inspector General and some of which to the intelligence committees. I actually had the people with first-hand knowledge provide a protected disclosure to the Inspector General.”
- Have you seen spacecraft: “I have to be careful describing what I’ve seen firsthand and not in this environment, but I could answer that question behind closed doors.”
- Do we have the bodies of UAP pilots: “Non-human biologics came with some of these recoveries. That was the assessment of people with direct knowledge of the program I talked to that are currently still in the program.”
- Have you seen bodies: “I have not.”
- Has our government made contact with extraterrestrials: “I can’t discuss that in a public setting.”
The Coverup:
- “Do you have any personal knowledge of people who’ve been harmed or injured in efforts to cover up or conceal these extraterrestrial technology?” “Yes, personally.”
- “Have you heard of anyone being murdered?” “I have to be careful answering that question. I directed people with that knowledge to the appropriate authorities.”
- Has UAP activity caused harm to humans: “I can’t get into the specifics in an open environment but at least the activity that I personally witnessed, and to be very careful here, because you don’t you know, they tell you never to acknowledge tradecraft, so what I personally witnessed myself and my wife was very disturbing.”
- Asked for names of people with first-hand knowledge, or locations of facilities: “I can’t discuss that publicly, but I did provide that information both to the Intel committees and the Inspector General.”
  - “I can’t discuss that in an open session” was a common answer from Grusch.
  - Asked later who should be called into the next hearing: “I can give you a specific cooperative and hostile witness list of specific individuals that were in those programs.”

Reactions

Mainstream media coverage: New York Times , Washington Post , Wall Street Journal , NPR , The Guardian , News.com.au , Time
Rep Moskowitz says the HOC is working to have Grusch provide them with the classified info he provided to the ICIG: the locations of non-human craft in US possession.
- Multiple members of the HOC are pushing for the establishment of a select committee on UAP, with the power to subpoena information.
  - Could be a Church Committee-type body.
Chris Mellon, in an interview on NewsNation: “I’ve been told that we have recovered technology that did not originate on this earth by officials in the Department of Defense and by former intelligence officials.”
Sean Cahill: “I think a lot of people have mischaracterized Mr Grusch as a witness. I would say more accurately, first he was the investigating officer, second, he was the complainant in a whistleblower investigation. If we make the comparison to a law enforcement investigation, to say that because he was not a direct witness of perhaps a craft, bodies, or experience, is like saying that a district attorney is not enough to prosecute a case because they weren’t present at the scene of the crime the moment that the crime happened. It’s a fallacy that’s being used to remove and erode his authority.”
- Reddit: “People keep saying Grusch only has second-hand information, but wasn’t that his job? He was an intelligence analyst for 14 years. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t his entire career revolve around analyzing and determining the veracity of second-hand information?”
Kelly Chase, UFO Rabbit Hole:
- “All we have are stories. Why aren’t we seeing the evidence?”
  - Because it’s impossible. There is no legal mechanism for classified information to be shared directly with the public. What we need is legislation (which was just introduced by Schumer in the Senate) to demand that this information be declassified so that it can be shared with the public.
- “Why haven’t we heard from firsthand witnesses of the alleged crash retrieval programs?”
  - Because they are allegedly being intimidated and retaliated against. It was crucial in this hearing that Congress signal that they are going to aggressively enforce the whistleblower legislation passed in December—and they did.
- “One of the key takeaways from this hearing is that the popular debunker narrative—specifically that this whole UFO thing is just the case of a few unscrupulous, superstitious grifters who managed to bamboozle a few gullible and conspiracy-minded Congresspeople into believing and funding fairy tales—is no longer tenable.
  - Grusch stated that he has interviewed 40 people with knowledge of these crash retrieval and reverse engineering programs and that information has been handed over the ICIG
  - He has also turned over the names of the programs and people involved, specific information about how these programs are being funded, and specific locations where these materials are being kept
  - Representatives from both houses and from both sides of the aisle have seen enough to come together in a coordinated and bipartisan manner to investigate this issue with extreme urgency and on multiple fronts
  - It’s clear that something real and of profound significance is going on here. Anyone who says otherwise at this point is acting in bad faith or is in denial. Period.”

References

Video: Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena: Implications on National Security, Public Safety, and Government Transparency
Opening statements from David Grusch, Ryan Graves, and David Fravor
The Debrief: Whistleblowers Testify Under Oath Regarding “Craft of Non-Human Origin” and Military Encounters with UAP
The Debrief: Congressman Provides Account of Military UAP Image That He Says Matches No “Human Capability”
The Debrief: The Congressional Hearing on UAP: What We Learned From Yesterday’s Testimony
Reddit: Grusch’s rank and type
Sean Kirkpatrick: statement on “hearings and transparency”
Rep Moskowitz: HOC working to get classified Grusch info from ICIG
Rep Moskowitz: I support the creation of a select committee on UAP
Chris Mellon: “I’ve been told we have recovered non-earth technology.”
Sean Cahill: “People mischaracterize Grusch as a witness. He’s the investigating officer.”
Reddit: “Wasn’t analyzing secondhand info Grusch’s job?”
Kelly Chase: No legal mechanism to share classified info with public
Kelly Chase: The firsthand whistleblowers are coming
Kelly Chase: The popular debunker narrative is no longer tenable

Episode 24, posted on July 28, 2023