Coulthart vs Elizondo

This week we’re discussing Ross Coulthart’s accusation that Lue Elizondo was previously part of a legacy program effort to limit UFO disclosure, and how it affects Lue’s consideration for a “UAP Czar” role. We also discuss persistent rumors that some sort of announcement is coming, perhaps on the July 8th anniversary of Roswell, and the fact that Dr Beatriz Villaroel is participating in a new initiative to search NASA archives for UAPs and other anomalies.

Coulthart vs Elizondo

Investigative journalist Ross Coulthart: “I’m hearing rumors that a very prominent member of the UAP transparency push may be being considered for appointment by the Trump administration. I hope that its done in a way that gives powers of subpoena, powers to compel openness and transparency.”
Last year, UAP whistleblower Lue Elizondo drafted a policy brief for the incoming administration: “Recent events like the drone incursions in New Jersey and the Chinese spy balloon incidents underscore a critical gap: The U.S. woefully lacks a whole-of-government solution to Emerging All-Domain Technologies. To solve this problem, this policy brief recommends that the President empower a White House Senior Advisor, or ‘Czar,’ within the National Security Council to: (1) coordinate the U.S. Government’s response; (2) formulate policy; (3) and conduct domestic and international outreach… allow[ing] the President and other key decisionmakers to get the answers they need, when they need them.”
Coulthart: “It’s pretty obvious… that the gentleman that I’ve been talking about, who I suspect might be up for a big position, is Lue Elizondo… I have been quite delicately outspoken in my belief… that I think Lue needs to be more forthcoming about his past roles. I like and respect Lue a lot, and I think he's in a difficult position because he's bound by his security oath about what he can reveal about his past roles. I know he can't talk about it. It's a ridiculous situation. But there are people who bitterly resent, and don't think it's a good idea that Lue be appointed to a position of power in UAP transparency, because they think that he was part of a previous agenda that was, essentially, to try to control the narrative. To restrict what the public is entitled to know about the UAP disclosure. And I think a lot of this was an intention by… General James Clapper, to try and impose a narrative on the public domain using Lue as a front man, a highly urbane, articulate, and likable front man, to try to restrict what the public was told about crash retrievals.”
Elizondo, in Congressional testimony, 2024: “I signed documentation 3 years ago that restricts my ability to discuss, specifically, crash retrievals. I submitted my book through the DOPSR process… and what is in the book is what I was told I am allowed to talk about… [Asked if the government conducted secret UAP crash retrieval programs] …Yes. [Asked if they were designed to identify and reverse-engineer recovered craft] …Yes.”
Post Disclosure World: “Ross Coulthart has been told that one concern some have is that there needs to be some perception that the individual who would have an oversight role inside the national security council, like a UFO czar, should be someone that whistleblowers feel comfortable approaching. And since Lue Elizondo allegedly had a counterintelligence role in the legacy program, this makes those who want to come forward nervous. That is a legitimate concern… This doesn't mean that Lue Elizondo would necessarily be untrustworthy… It just means that some may feel that there hypothetically could be a conflict of interest, and that the UFO czar shouldn’t create that kind of atmosphere. I think that’s a fair objection.”
UAP Gerb: “I have heard similar statements from individuals within or on the periphery of the Legacy Programs regarding Mr. Elizondo. These allegations are two-fold: 1. From 2009-2017, Lue operated the AATIP, a cover program for several National Security Council-led activities at the behest of DNI James Clapper. This effort originated from within the Legacy Program onion (Clapper) and sought to push a partial disclosure/transparency initiative, culminating in attempts to establish Hillary Clinton as the "disclosure" president. 2. Separate from the AATIP, Elizondo has a very deep history within the Legacy architecture, specifically surrounding program protection.”
Elizondo: “I find it interesting that just weeks ago, according to some on media, I had nothing to do with the UFO program or the Pentagon, or AATIP. And now, apparently, I ran everything involving UFOs and The Legacy Program.”
- Elizondo: “I don't know exactly where Ross is getting his information. I suspect he has sources. Really, that's not really my concern. I've always had a lot of respect for Ross… for the record, I think Ross is an excellent investigative journalist. I consider him a friend… I've dedicated the last 10 years of my life being forthcoming with the American people about the reality of UAP, UFOs. In fact, one only has to look at my resignation memo, for the record, that I wrote to Secretary [James] Mattis… at the time. I've committed myself to transparency to the degree that I could. It is true that I had a security clearance… I didn't say I was part of the Legacy program.”
- Elizondo: “When you work for the government, and you have a security clearance, there's always these statements, you know, we cannot confirm or deny. And people always take that as some sort of implicit yes, but the reality is, that's not at all what that means. There are classified programs out there, and if someone were to ask me, 'Lue, were you part of,' I don't know, 'Project X with the M1 Abrams tank?' Even if I wasn't, if it's a classified program, I would have to say, 'I can't discuss that.' In fact, I can't even acknowledge that… A lot of times people infer things… and starts to take on its own life.”
Coulthart: “What I saw was Lue very deftly avoiding any breach of his National Security Act oath obligations and basically refusing to confirm or deny whether or not he was a part of the Legacy Program… I respect and understand the constraints that Lue is under. He's in a very difficult position and I certainly don't want people to think that I'm trying to hijack him with this stuff… Lue has never made any public admission that he was in the Legacy Program. But what he didn't do… is respond to the specific allegation that he was involved in the Legacy UAP retrieval reverse engineering Program.”

Whistleblower Amnesty

Rep Anna Paulina Luna: “There have been a few very credible whistleblowers that we’ve talked to that alleged they had information specifically pertaining to [locations of craft and biologics], but were afraid of losing their clearances. So we’ve talked directly to the White House and we are providing them with a list of people that will be given immunity, in that they will not have to face retribution in the future for violation of their security clearance, or in some cases, maybe the Espionage Act, whatever it might be.”
Rep Eric Burlison: “There may be some times where these individuals were promoted into a system or a program, sometimes they’re now inheriting things where they realize, well, there’s crimes involved in this. So they’re kinda put in an awkward situation. Do they do their patriotic duty? What do they do? I think that providing some level of amnesty for them to be able to come forward is very important.”
Investigative journalist Ross Coulthart: “I've actually asked people I've said to people who are in a semi-managerial position inside the Program, why the secrecy? And there was one executive of a major aerospace company who said to me, ‘It's not us, it's the CIA.’ And then I spoke to somebody in the CIA and they said, ‘Oh, no, no, it's not us, it's the aerospace companies.’”
- Coulthart: “And I think part of the problem is that not since Dick Cheney has there been a super executive who's sat over the whole thing. Like the idea of a control group like an MJ12 style group. I think that's been overcome by history. I think there was an MJ12 style control group, but I think that that's now been superseded by huge levels of compartmentalization.”
- Coulthart: “And so you've got Northrop Grumman working on one thing, largely psionics. Lockheed Martin working on physical craft. People like MITRE Corporation working on what I think is an extension of the GATE program which is, believe it or not, finding children that are psychically manipulable and usable in the Program. All of this is, I know, quite extraordinary and science fiction sounding, but it's real. And I found myself being dragged reluctantly down this rabbit hole, increasingly confronted by the fact that nobody is in charge of it. And that's the issue.”
Rep Eric Burlison: “I can definitely imagine Dick Cheney on his way out saying, ‘I'm not reading in the Obama administration or the Clinton administration. I'm not reading them in on this.’ And knowing that once he's gone, no one will really know because it's now all been completely disseminated.”
- Burlison: “From the people that I talked to, it appears to me that what has happened since the Dick Cheney kind of era has gone is now no one really knows what's what, and I think all the information is being held in that private sector somewhere between the FFRDCs and the private companies.”
- Burlison: “And so now it's an effort to try to basically go back and learn what people used to know. And that is not an easy effort. So the way they're describing it to me is that the easiest thing to release was the Department of War videos because we had those readily available, and because myself and others were giving them the names of these video files and saying here you go start with this. And then they come back and said, ‘What next?’ And my response, ‘You're asking me? You are asking me what you should be releasing next?’ It tells me that they are either just only going to release what they know that I know, or I honestly think that they are actually trying to rediscover what they once knew.”

Impact of Disclosure

Dr Jacques Vallée: “Some of the things I’ve been exposed to that are unclassified that I can talk about to some extent, of communication with actual beings in labs on this planet, that people are interacting with to try to develop higher level languages to prepare for the communication. That’s a different order of creatures that we haven’t really seen before or been aware of before. Those things are going on. There is obviously a huge cultural impact coming, and it will involve, of course, religion, but it will involve philosophy, it will involve the history of science. All of those disciplines need to catch up and start building an infrastructure to study this.”
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, Chris Mellon: “The facts are undeniable: Something gravely serious is occurring in our air space, and in many cases, our government does not understand the origin, capability, or intentions of these intruders. The sooner we learn the truth, the better our chances for preparing for whatever comes next. That may be transformational, because if it turns out, as I believe the evidence increasingly suggests it will, that some of these craft are of non-human origin, the implications are not merely scientific; they ripple outward from national security into economics, into religion and philosophy, into the deepest questions of human identity.”
Rep Anna Paulina Luna: “There will be an announcement soon on one other kind of factor to all this, but it's nothing that... I think it'll just be kind of to give the assurance that people will understand the phenomenon is real. For the most part everything that we have been able to discuss in a SCIF we can now talk about publicly. What I will say is, without a doubt, the phenomenon is real.”

UAP Disclosure Act

Sen Mike Rounds: “We’re going to introduce [the UAP Disclosure Act]. Put it as an amendment on the NDAA [National Defense Authorization Act]. Hopefully, the Senate will agree with us to do so. And if that’s the case, then the next step is going with the House and seeing if they would agree to some format of it. I presume they’ll have concerns like they did last time. Hopefully, we’ll be able to allay some of those concerns or work through those concerns.”
- Ask a Pol, Matt Lazlo: “So you’re convinced the concerns are with the House? I still haven’t been able to find the voice of opposition.”
- Sen Rounds: “Well, this is one way to find out. Offer it again and then find out who will object to it. And it’ll be interesting to see whether or not the House has any provisions along the same line as our proposal, and if there is, then we’ll have a stronger case for putting it in the final version.”
Rep. Burlison: “We're trying to get UAP Disclosure Acts put on the National Defense Authorization Act. We are facing difficulties, and I mean, it's so frustrating, because it's not members [of Congress]. I don't, at least, if it is members, they're not coming to me and saying, 'Hey, I'm not allowing your amendment.' It's staff! And it's like, ‘who elected you? You were not elected!' I mean, for you to be able to deny an elected official whose...my job is to answer to the people, and you're gonna deny me the ability to get this amendment, at least even offered, is unacceptable. And so, right now we're trying to get that made in order, so that when it comes to the floor, at least we get an opportunity to have a vote on the UAP Disclosure Act! And then you'll know who supports it and who doesn't.”
D. Dean Johnson: “Rep. Burlison testified in person before the committee to request approval of his amendment, a step taken by only a small number of sponsors of submitted amendments.”
D. Dean Johnson: “Senators Chuck Schumer and Mike Rounds filed the ‘UAP Disclosure Act’ as a possible amendment to the 2027 NDAA on June 24, 2026. This means that versions of the UAPDA are now formally available for possible consideration when the Senate and House take up their respective versions of the NDAA, likely in July.”

NASA Review Committee

Disclosure Foundation: “the Disclosure Foundation, a non-partisan, non-profit organization, will conduct a review of NASA archival material for UAP information… Troves of public – but unanalyzed – information remains available through NASA… This initiative will identify imagery, data, and other forms of information that is relevant to unlocking the mystery of UAP by… leveraging state-of-the-art artificial intelligence (AI) and machine learning (ML) capabilities. The objective will be to identify anomalies that warrant further investigation and to ultimately share its findings with the public as well as any interested federal and state governmental entities.”
Dr Beatriz Villarroel: “The effort is led by former NASA Associate Administrator for Space Policy and Partnerships Mr. Mike Gold and is being carried out together with Disclosure Foundation Executive Director Jordan Flowers, theoretical physicist Dr. Maaneli Derakhshani, aerospace engineer [and former chief scientist of the UAPTF] Dr. Travis Taylor, former Under Secretary for Science and Technology at DHS Dr. Reggie Brothers, clinical psychologist Dr. Stephen Bruehl, and myself.”
Dr Villaroel: “We will conduct a serious review of NASA material in search of UAPs and anomalies (and I'll be looking for transients, too).”
Rep Burlison: “But to me the real question is if there is/was a program that has already done all of this work and does have the truth. And probably knows what these glowing orbs are that we’re seeing. Wouldn’t it make more sense that we crack the nut of who was in the Legacy program. Where those files are stored. How do we open that so we can? Instead of doing all of the reinventive work to try to rediscover it from another angle.”

Dr Villaroel

Dr Villaroel: “While chatting with a friend yesterday, we discussed what might happen to astronomy funding after Disclosure. In my view, there is a tension between a scenario in which the first recognised evidence of extraterrestrial life comes through SETI or conventional astrobiology, and one in which Disclosure arrives through the White House…”
- Villaroel: “Let us consider a scenario in which there are zero indications of UAPs in astronomical data, and astrobiologists proudly announce that planet Huntabunta-32b exhibits a rich array of biosignatures, perhaps even accompanied by a small radio-emitting moon. News of that kind would almost certainly lead to a major increase in funding for astronomy.”
- Villaroel: “Now consider the alternative, and in my view, the far more realistic scenario: the White House publicly acknowledges contact with non-human intelligence (NHI) within the coming years, and confirms that UFOs are real. Given the longstanding stigma surrounding the subject within academia, and how far ahead military and intelligence communities appear to be on the UFO question compared to academic researchers, such an acknowledgment would likely trigger a significant reshuffling of research priorities and funding.”
- Villaroel: “I suspect that a significant fraction of resources would shift away from traditional civilian astronomy and towards more public-facing military programmes dedicated to studying UAPs… For this reason, I believe many astronomers are motivated to dismiss anything related to UFOs or Disclosure. Whether consciously or not, they may recognise that a confirmed UFO reality could eventually compete with existing research priorities and funding structures.”
Dr Villaroel: “This is HUGE news. PhD astronomer and former NASA engineer Ivo Busko has single-handedly driven a final nail into the coffin of the contamination-based hypotheses (e.g. plate defects and cosmic rays) proposed to explain the VASCO transients.”
- Villaroel: “He did so using one of the most creative approaches in astronomy I have ever seen: by analysing pre-Sputnik photographic plates from a German telescope known to suffer from severe optical distortions (aberrations), he demonstrated that the transients appear on these plates and exhibit the same optical distortions as the stars themselves.”
- Villaroel: “They are slightly narrower and sharper than the stars, consistent with brief flashes. This is a crucial result. It shows that the transient light passed through the telescope optics, meaning the transients originate from real objects producing light, rather than from plate defects or cosmic-ray contamination that hit the plate. Dr Busko has also shown that the transients cluster spatially and are associated with periods close to nuclear tests.”

References

Episode 90, posted on July 5, 2026

Coulthart vs Elizondo

Coulthart vs Elizondo

Whistleblower Amnesty

Impact of Disclosure

UAP Disclosure Act

NASA Review Committee

Dr Villaroel

References

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