David Grusch on Dr Phil

It’s been a wild couple weeks. Billionaire Robert Bigelow met with President Trump and gave him a suggested statement for disclosure. UAP whistleblower David Grusch was interviewed by Dr. Phil, and says the US has recovered dozens of UAPs, some with non-human bodies, and even some living beings. The fifth UFO file release dropped, and Ross Coulthart claims that the White House is now attempting their own crash retrieval operation with the assistance of Skywatcher, attempting to work around a non-cooperative legacy program.

Bigelow’s Trump Meeting

Legendary journalist George Knapp interviewed Bigelow Aerospace founder and AAWSAP contractor Robert Bigelow about a meeting he had with President Trump in February: “I was emphasizing that the disclosure process, starting with confirmation, is a big deal. You know, that really is important for somebody like the president of the United States to say, 'Yeah, they're real. They're here,' and eliminate all the other nonsense, all the noise that's been going on for 80 years… And this is what I want you to say, Mr. President: 'A non-human intelligent presence has been on Earth for a very long time, using spacecraft and with performances completely beyond our capabilities and our human physics.' And that's it. To say nothing else. That's it. That's all, because what this is, is… actually confirmation.”

David Grusch Interview

UAP whistleblower David Grusch: “ So in terms of what my exposure was, I had folks from the retrieval program, I'll call it exfiltrate audiovisual evidence for me to see, both video and photos. And that was… audiovisual evidence of the retrieved craft [and] some of the dead cadavers that were recovered… the pilots… And of course, I interviewed a ton of subjects all the way up to the cabinet White House level that had close personal participation in this subject… I brought a lot of those people to the intelligence community inspector general… This complaint was… considered credible and urgent. [Director of National Intelligence] Avril Haines was forced to send it to the Senate and House intelligence committees in summer 2022, and then I subsequently provided 11 and a half hours of classified testimony to the Senate and House intelligence committees.”
Grusch: “ Unfortunately, from what I understand, there was a little bit of fear in those committees, especially in the Senate, and they didn't open up a full field investigation. I think Mark Warner and Marco Rubio were a little nervous to really up the ante… And then, of course, the ICIG investigated it. And from what I understand, back-channelled to me unofficially is, Jake Sullivan in White House General Counsel Office basically told Tom Monheim, who was the Inspector General for the intelligence Community under Biden, and his staff to stop, and they realized they were bumping into White House classified programs, something called special access programs, and eventually they were told to stop, from what I understand… I hope Secretary Rubio is helping Stephen Miller at the White House, because I'm hearing mixed messages about Stephen Miller's seriousness. And I hope he understands how this will impact President Trump's legacy if this is botched.”
Grusch: “ It's funny, I got tipped off initially, I got access, I have to be careful because some of this is still classified, to a peer adversary's intelligence reporting about what they thought was going on in the US. And I learned more from a particular peer adversary about what the US was doing in terms of retrieval and reverse engineering of UAP than I learned from my own government officially, until I started spelunking in different archives, talking to people that were able to provide me program documentation, et cetera. And then I had an individual that cleared me into a program that I could learn some of the signatures that we've learned that these craft emit, and how the US tracks it, and how they hide the tracking of UAP within the national intelligence architecture in plain sight… And… that foreign intelligence reporting, the Defense Intelligence Agency has refused to release those classified documents to Congress. And I know Representative Burlison is likely gonna pulse DIA leadership to get that.”
Dr Phil: “Now you say you have seen and have evidence that there are craft that didn't originate on this planet. Are we talking multiple craft?”
- Grusch: “Yeah.”
- Dr. Phil: “Are we talking five, six, 25, 50? What are we talking about?”
- Grusch: “Under 100, but more than 25 is what I could say. And the exact numbers actually are a little nebulous, because starting in the early 2000s when a lot of money was siphoned for the global war on terror, the big defense contractors started doing their own retrievals sort of off books, under the cognizance of certain government agencies. So there's a lot in… private possession in defense contractor space that I think the government doesn't have a full accounting on. So it's really hard to get exact numbers, but certainly we've recovered several dozen vehicles over the last eight, nine decades or so.”
Dr Phil: “ Do you know where some of these craft, if we have more than 25 and less than 100, do you know where some of these are being stored or researched as we sit here today?”
- Grusch: “ Yeah, the problem with that is I knew where they were historically up until the date and time that my source at that facility worked at it. And this is something I told an element of Stephen Miller's task force recently is, they're gonna have to get eyes onto those facilities. There is a program protection strategy, unfortunately, to move moveable archives and materials if they feel like the location has been burned or exposed… Up until a couple years ago, I was aware of US government facilities and contractor facilities that both had the documentation and the material holdings and the cadavers… But… certain things are hard to move. When they're a particular size, it's a little bit laborious to move. So I think there's some locations that likely are untouched because... I'll be very vague on that. Not to spook the herd.”
Dr. Phil: “ And is there a homogeneity among these that suggests that they're all coming from the same place? Are they similar, different?”
- Grusch: “There's a lot of vehicle types. You have the disc, you have the sunfish, boot-heel looking thing. You have boomerangs, you have crescent moon looking craft. You have Tic Tacs. You have egg looking craft as well. Certainly, it's very hard to deduce origin, because it's not like we know exactly what point in space or time these things came from.”
- Grusch: “Different types of pilots, different types of craft, some similarities in operation and technology. It's sort of like if you're a car manufacturer, a lot of people build sports cars that are in the shape of a Porsche 911 or a Ford Mustang, but there's many different drivers of said sports cars, if you get the coarse analogy. So it's a whole taxonomy of different intelligences from very familiar type of intelligence, where they seem just a little more advanced than us, to indescribable, noncorporeal type of sentience.”
- Grusch: “ You know, it goes back to the orb phenomenon that came out in tranche four, that the administration is having this issue with these luminous orbs showing up at a certain sensitive test range. What is that? You could see that it's intelligently controlled. They come in groups. This isn't just ball lightning here, but it's this plasmoid type intelligence. Now, there might be a structured craft behind said plasmoid, and that plasma discharge might be an artifact of the propulsion system possibly. But we're seeing even weird stuff like that, that is almost unknowable what it is, unless we have some way of studying it or capturing it that I don't know about.”
Dr Phil: “ And you have also seen pictures, or video, or both, of life forms that are piloting these craft as well. You've seen the cadavers.”
- Grusch: “ Yeah. Some of the craft we've assessed are likely drones, and some of the craft that we've recovered… were empty and the pilots were not there… But yes, some of it was piloted. And… what do you know? They look just like what people have reported seeing… What we would call in pop culture speak, grays. Small gray aliens, exactly the way you think… Some of them look exactly as reported by credible observers that have nothing to gain and everything to lose by discussing their experience.”
Dr Phil: “ Have any of these pilots or occupants of these craft, to your knowledge, been taken alive?”
- Grusch: Yes. And I know people who have had direct interactions in a detainment situation, which sounds very Star Trek and sounds very crazy, but it is true. I talked to… a former cabinet member about that, who directly worked the issue for a particular former vice president. You can guess which one. Darth Vader.”
Dr Phil: “ And were they able to communicate?”
- Grusch: “ Yes. And it is true that some sort of a consciousness communication… People call it telepathy. I cannot begin to tell you how it works, but there is some sort of communication like that. And even friends of mine that were on retrievals, felt that kind of communication as they approached the vehicle when they were… cordoning it off, waiting for transport. How that works, what that means, I certainly don't know.”
Dr Phil: “ I'm learning about this as I go along, and I'm told that our nearest neighboring solar system is Andromeda, and that it would take two and a half million years traveling at the speed of light to get there. So if these visitors have traveled from the nearest solar system, it would take two and a half million years at the speed of light, which we can't do.”
- Grusch: “Yes, the closest galaxy, I think it's M31, Andromeda, like you said, however, within our own galaxy, there's extra solar planets around other nearby stars. I do caution to ascribe this whole phenomenon as merely just extraterrestrial. That's certainly a piece of the pie. That's likely what some of this is. But there's other taxonomies of anomalous intelligences… Perhaps it's ultra-terrestrial. Perhaps it grew up here, and it left, and it came back. And there's shadow biome. There's other types of origins. There's under the sea… We don't understand 70% of our oceans, and what advanced intelligence might have developed on the seabed?”

Whistleblowers Ask Trump to Lift NDAs

Filmmaker James Fox shared a new video from Dr Eric Davis: “I’m an astrophysicist and a chief scientist in the US defense intelligence industry. I investigated Unidentified Anomalous Phenomenon, UAP, for 30 years. I’ve seen classified and proprietary defense intelligence industry evidence. Evidence that the American public and the world have a right to see. That included photographs and documentation of retrieved craft and alien bodies, but I’m prevented from publicly sharing this evidence because of the threat to my security clearances, employment, and potential for civil or criminal penalties. Mr President, with your signature, you could waive the SF-312 NDA to protect UAP whistleblowers like myself. I respectfully request that you take swift and decisive action as the nature of UAP should not be kept deeply classified.”
Davis in Age of Disclosure: “I’m aware of at least two advanced non-human species, one of which made contact with the legacy crash retrieval program. The other of which, the bodies were recovered by the crash retrieval program in various crashes.”
Fox also shared a video from Immaculate Constellation whistleblower Matthew Brown: “From 2018 to 2025, I served as a national security contractor supporting the Department of War and the Department of State. In these roles, I was entrusted with our nation’s most sensitive intelligence at every level of classification along with operations designed to counter our adversaries’ most destructive capabilities. Beginning in 2023, I provided sensitive information to Senate and House members regarding Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena, technologies of unknown origin, and non-human intelligence. I also authored the document known as ‘The Immaculate Constellation Report,’ the public version of which details evidence of longstanding US government awareness of these subjects. The American people and Congress have not heard the whole truth because secrecy agreements and active threats prevent me from speaking freely. Mr President, I respectfully ask that you release me from all relevant secrecy and nondisclosure obligations, and protect my family from those who wish to harm me for telling the American people the truth. We are not alone.”

UAP Files Batch 5

CBS News: “The bulk of Friday's release includes the type of grainy videos that have been the hallmark of past disclosures, showing flying objects captured by military sensors and cameras. Six of the videos show different versions of the same incident — an encounter over the Gulf of Oman by Special Operations forces on an AC-130J gunship in September 2021. The clips are cellphone videos of screens on the gunship, showing objects picked up by its infrared and other sensors.”
- Anon Reddit user: “Why does the latest file release contain videos of screens?”
- CBS: “An accompanying intelligence report sheds more light on the footage. The report said the forces onboard the gunship ‘observed approximately 25 instances of UAPs while conducting a live fire exercise in the Gulf of Oman.’ ‘The UAPs were observed as cold orbs flying at lower altitudes between 250 to 1300 MPH in different formations as well as maneuvering aggressively. UAPs also appeared to react to the aircraft firing its main cannon,’ the report said.”
CBS News: “One noteworthy [FBI] report records an interview with a former military pilot about something he saw while serving in Afghanistan in 2002. ‘At approximately 4:30 AM local time, [the pilot] noticed that the stars were getting blacked out over Bagram. It appeared as if something huge went overhead, from west to east, and was an equilateral triangle shape. The object was moving silently, at a consistent speed and altitude, possibly 150 knots, with no lights visible,’ the agent wrote. The pilot ‘estimated it was 500 feet in size, but he could not fully see the shape of the object.’ He reported that the pilot he was with ‘also observed the triangle, and when it passed over stated, 'did you see that?'’”
Chris Sharp, Editor of Liberation Times: “I think we will be hitting the point where these releases will start backfiring on the government. With no context, analysis or ways of interpreting these releases, people will lose interest.”
Post Disclosure World: “At what point do these UFO tranche releases serve the cover-up and confuse the public about what's been happening for the last eighty years? At what point are we all being trolled and manipulated?”
Anjali: “This ‘Disclosure Thing’ is for entertainment purposes and polling numbers for the WH, and a game of Hide-n-Seek for the MIC. I stand by my position that it will be whistleblowers, experiencers, and the phenomena itself that actually gives the world Disclosure.”
Joe Murgia: “If I show this… to my open-minded, skeptical friends, they're gonna laugh me out of the room. Show me one clear and close video showing a CRAFT making a right-angle turn. Do those videos exist?”
Astrobiologist Jacob Haqq-Misra: “Without further information, the PURSUE sensor videos in their present form cannot fully resolve unidentified cases or conclusively indicate anomalous velocities.”
Chris Mellon: “I’ve seen some of the imagery that hasn’t been released. For example, we have satellite imagery looking down on UAP from above. And some of that is of much higher calber than the imagery that’s been released to date. So that’s an example of something the public would find, I think, very informative. People complain about these pictures because they’re infrared imagery and they’re fuzzy looking, and they’re what fighter pilots are used to, but not what the public is used to… So we’re a long way from coming clean with what the government has.”
Lue Elizondo: “There are things we can do to increase transparency and faith and confidence by the American people, and some of that is to just have a conversation. Like, if I was ever in charge of AARO or one of these other organizations, every single month I'd have a report card on myself. I would do an hour interview. You can ask me anything you want. Here's where we are. Here's the report card of what we set out we were going to do. You know, we're getting an A in this area, we're getting a B in this area, we're getting a C minus in this area. But here's what we're going to do to take that C minus and bring it up to a B, right? …Ultimately, what happens when you don't have information, you get a void. And in that void, people can throw whatever junk and garbage they want to. So, to fix that, you communicate.”
NY Post: “A pair of classified videos allegedly showing a 100-foot black triangular UFO over a Colorado military base remain locked away despite President Trump’s new order aimed at encouraging more UFO whistleblowers to come forward, sources familiar with the footage told The Post. Two videos, recorded on a service member’s personal cellphone on consecutive nights in 2023, are among the pieces of evidence whistleblowers say still cannot be discussed or released publicly because they remain classified by the Air Force, sources said. Those videos — which captured the craft zooming over mountains and actively camouflaging in clouds — are stored with the Air Force Office of Special Investigations in Colorado, file numbers IRR1669S015524 and IRR1669S005024, according to those sources.”
- Pentagon Press Secretary Joel Valdez: “Our team at the Department of War is looking into this report. If there is anything we uncover, we will release it under PURSUE on http://WAR.GOV/UFO.”
- UAP whistleblower Matthew Brown: “Doesn’t get much easier than this. They have the report numbers, cognizant authority, and geographic location. Should be a quick turnaround! Let’s see what PURSUE can do.”

Disclosure Conflict

Liberation Times: “Liberation Times understands that advocates are now competing to shape what form any disclosure would take should the President decide to proceed. Sources familiar with the current effort say some private defence contractors and individuals with ties to the CIA are resisting broader disclosure.”
Rep Tim Burchett: “I had a meeting at the Pentagon this week on the issue. A very high-level meeting. I’m not at liberty to say who was there and what was said, but it was over two hours, if that tells you anything. The disclosure is real. The problem we’re having right now is the deep state is blocking… people like Stephen Miller and others from accessing this.”
Liberation Times: “Three sources have told Liberation Times that figures within ODNI linked to the CIA are resisting efforts by the Trump administration to release more substantial information concerning UAP. Those sources identified Aaron Lukas, the Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence, as one of the officials allegedly providing such resistance.”
Investigative Journalist Ross Coulthart: “The Department Of War has quite literally taken on the running of its own covert operation to intercept these mystery objects and I'm told they have recently downed objects, craft, both in the US and across the border near Juarez in Mexico.”
- Coulthart: “I am also told by White House sources that President Trump has personally authorised this operation, which perhaps explains why no full admission has yet been made to the public about the full extent of what the government really knows. There is a full-on effort underway by the administration to recover suspected NHI exotic technology in a program totally totally separate from the so-called legacy program. This is an attempt by the president to circumvent the legacy program. It's been run out of the White House by the president's most senior intelligence advisors.”
- Coulthart: “I'm told the defense department is using the same so-called dog whistle, electromechanical signaling, and psionic summoners, neuromeditative interaction, as Skywatchers team was doing at Sierra Blanca. It also perhaps explains why if members of Skywatcher are working with the defense department, why SkyWatcher has gone very quiet.”
Podcaster Darren King: “We're hearing word of different factions within the government trying to gain the upper hand over each other by racing to down UAP and study the recovered technology. In other words, instead of asking for briefings, newer officials are seeking first-hand access through direct interception.”

References

Dr Phil Podcast: David Grusch: The Whistleblower Who Told Congress We’re Not Alone
Bigelow: Robert Bigelow and George Knapp discuss UFO disclosure
Davis: “Mr President, with your signature, you could waive the NDA.”
Brown: “Mr President, I ask that you release me from all nondisclosure obligations.”
Davis: “I’m aware of at least two advanced non-human species.”
DoD: Fifth tranche of UAP records released
CBS News: Pentagon releases new batch of UFO files: "Did you see that?"
Sharp: “I think these releases will start backfiring on the government.”
Mellon: “We have satellite imagery looking down on UAP.”
NYPost: 100-foot triangular UFO over Colorado base captured in video Air Force won’t release: sources
Pentagon: “Our team is looking into this report.”
Brown: “They have the report numbers, authority, and location. Should be quick!”
Post Disclosure World: “At what point are we all being trolled and manipulated?”
Anjali: “This is for polling numbers and hide-and-seek.”
Murgia: “If I show this to my skeptical friends, they’ll laugh me out of the room.”
Haqq-Misra: Limits on Velocity Recovery from the PURSUE Sensor Videos
Elizondo: “If I were in charge of AARO, every month I’d have a report card on myself.”
Liberation Times: UFO History Is Being Shaped in Washington - No One Knows How This Ends
Rep Burchett: “I had a two hour meeting at the Pentagon. The deep state is blocking Stephen Miller.”
Liberation Times: Intelligence Watchdog Warns of FBI Referral Over Alleged Disclosure of UAP Whistleblower Testimony
Coulthart: “President Trump authorized DOD to shoot down UAP.”
King: “Different government factions are racing to down UAP to study.”

Episode 93, posted on August 16, 2026